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Energized Work permit debate?
https://brainfiller.com/arcflashforum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=34		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Maughbc [ Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:14 am ]
Post subject:  Energized Work permit debate?
some of my colleges have interrupted that an Energized electrical work permit is only needed “when the work performed involves only physically contacting parts that are energized on a voltage source (greater than 50 Volts).
I have referred them to the statement in NFPA70e referring to "on on near"..... but they insisted its touching live parts? I have even tried to use a situation I had to explained the hazard in reference to on or near, were the work to be done was to remove an existing I-line breaker and wire (on the load side of the breaker) and install a larger breaker, also punching a new hole in the panel to accommodate a new conduit to pull new feeders in, for the addition of a sub feeder to be feed of the new larger breaker? the panel board is a 400 amp 3 phase 3 wire, 480 volt panel board.

Am I miss interrupting 70e? I was under the interpretation that this panel board would have to be denergized or you would have to fill out an energized work permit if the power was to remain on to the panel board.

any insight or comments would be appreciated.
Author:  Jim Phillips (brainfiller) [ Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:32 am ]
Post subject: 
Energized Work Permit

You have it right. NFPA 70E Article 130.1(A)(1) Energized Electrical Work Permit - which is explained in the NFPA 70E handbook on page 66 offers this interpretation: "All work to be done on or near energized live parts must be authorized by a written permit"

The concern is people can almost as easily be injured (or worse) when working near live parts.
Author:  Zog [ Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
brainfiller wrote:
You have it right. NFPA 70E Article 130.1(A)(1) Energized Electrical Work Permit - which is explained in the NFPA 70E handbook on page 66 offers this interpretation: "All work to be done on or near energized live parts must be authorized by a written permit"

The concern is people can almost as easily be injured (or worse) when working near live parts.


To add to this, look in the definitions at "on or near live parts" it says any activity within the LAB.
Author:  haze10 [ Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
NFPA70 also sanctions a 'standing permit' for routine work. Obviously you are not going to pull a permit everytime you check voltage. Routine work could be far encompassing, especially if you have your own employees who are well trained on the arc flash policy and rules.
Author:  Zog [ Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:11 am ]
Post subject: 
haze10 wrote:
NFPA70 also sanctions a 'standing permit' for routine work. Obviously you are not going to pull a permit everytime you check voltage. Routine work could be far encompassing, especially if you have your own employees who are well trained on the arc flash policy and rules.


Yes, we used a standing EEWP for IR scans and Oil samples, a EEWP is issued and signed by safety manager for each job but it not rewritten for every IR scan, just printed and signed.
Author:  deprico [ Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:33 am ]
Post subject: 
What about the permit exemption? It's not clear, at least to me, when a permit is required and when the permit exemption applies.
Author:  Zog [ Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:33 am ]
Post subject: 
Tasks relating to testing, troubleshooting, and voltage measurements are the exception to the EEWP requirement becasue they have to be done energized.

Anything else requires justification to be done energized and therefore requires a EEWP, which after looking at most companies will decide to shut down the system and work de-energized to avoid putting a signature on the EEWP. thats the whole point, to deter you from doing energized work.
Author:  Safety Girl [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:04 am ]
Post subject: 
Confused over Energized Work permit exemption

We need to perform some voltage testing on a 220v system. I've always thought that this is activity is exempted from the work permit requirement, until questioned by an engineer recently.

130.2(B)3 states that, "Work performed within the Limited Approach Boundary of energized electrical conductors or circuit parts by qualified persons related to tasks such as testing, troubleshooting, voltage measuring, etc., shall be permitted to be performed without an energized electrical work permit provided appropriate safe work practices and PPE... are provided and used."

If my guy has to attach a multimeter to the equipment to complete the voltage testing, are we exempt from the work permit requirement, even though he just crossed the Prohibited Approach Boundary to conduct the testing?
Author:  JJH [ Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:55 am ]
Post subject: 
Voltage testing does not require an energized work permit. The prohibited approach boundary for 220v is "avoid contact". For 480 volt systems, the PAB is 1". The finger guards on the volt meter leads should keep fingers outside of the PAB.
Author:  glen1971 [ Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:43 am ]
Post subject: 
JJH wrote:
Voltage testing does not require an energized work permit. The prohibited approach boundary for 220v is "avoid contact". For 480 volt systems, the PAB is 1". The finger guards on the volt meter leads should keep fingers outside of the PAB.


Not entirely true.. Some clients that I work with require an Energized Hot work permit. One has made it into a standard for low voltage (less than 750 volts), since the hazzards are the same.
Author:  JJH [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:55 am ]
Post subject: 
70E does not require an energized work permit for diagnostics and visual inspections within the LAB - 130.1(B)(3). But companies can adopt more stringent requirements if the want to.
Author:  haze10 [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:09 am ]
Post subject: 
Just because someone is doing something doesn't mean its a requirement. The question is asking for an interpretation of the permit process defined in Art 130. The answer by JJH is correct. However, I would add that you should have a policy in place that defines 'routine' work which would include voltage testing. Routine work can include other things as well, as long as your program clearly defines the boundaries and training requirements.
Author:  JCV [ Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Data collection task

What about removing panel covers for data collection.
Do you need an energized work permit for that?

Please Advise
Author:  JoeB [ Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
JCV wrote:
What about removing panel covers for data collection.
Do you need an energized work permit for that?

Please Advise


130.2(B)(3) Exemptions to Work Permit. ...If the purpose of crossing the Limited Approach Boundary is only for visual inspection and the Restricted Approach Boundary wil not be crossed, then an energized electrical work permit shall not be required.

Not sure how you would inspect without removing covers so my vote would be no permit required. Although I suppose you could say removing the cover puts you in the RAB.

Any others have different opinions?
Author:  A King [ Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:10 am ]
Post subject: 
We use a standing permit for removing covers for data collectiona and removing covers for IR scans.
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