Arc Flash Forum :: View topic - Voltage in enclosure

I had an "Expert" say that PPE is not required if the panel is dead, even though other components with exposed terminals in the enclosure are still live, and above 50 volts. (480 to be exact) I disagree, but I need a reference from 70E to back it up, or am I the one that's wrong on this? I have ordered the 70E handbook, but I do not have it yet.

This is manufactured gear that has panelboards, contactors, and a phase loss monitor, and a Watts transducer all in one enclosure (does not include the mains though). The Watts transducer and phase loss monitor are feed from pull out fuses in the same enclosure, but are feed from ahead of the main :eek:

so the only way to remove all voltage from this enclosure is to kill the poco transformer.

The the panel os not dead and you need to observe the boundaries I mentioned for your PPE requirements.

Author:	hillbilly [ Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:01 am ]
Post subject:	Voltage in enclosure
I had an "Expert" say that PPE is not required if the panel is dead, even though other components with exposed terminals in the enclosure are still live, and above 50 volts. (480 to be exact) I disagree, but I need a reference from 70E to back it up, or am I the one that's wrong on this? I have ordered the 70E handbook, but I do not have it yet.

Author:	Zog [ Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:21 am ]
Post subject:
hillbilly wrote: I had an "Expert" say that PPE is not required if the panel is dead, even though other components with exposed terminals in the enclosure are still live, and above 50 volts. (480 to be exact) I disagree, but I need a reference from 70E to back it up, or am I the one that's wrong on this? I have ordered the 70E handbook, but I do not have it yet. Well it depends on the distances from the area you are working and the other exposed live parts. If you are still working inside the AFB or RAB you will need the appropriate PPE.

Author:	A King [ Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:23 am ]
Post subject:
Establishing an Electrically Safe Work Condition In article 100 of the NFPA-70E an electrically safe work condition is defined as, "a state in which an electrical conductor or circuit part has been disconnected from energized parts, locked/tagged in accordance with established standards, tested to ensure the absence of voltage, and grounded if determined necessary." Article 120 goes into further detail on establishing an electrically safe work condition (six step process). While it is true PPE is not required if the panel is dead; however, it cannot be considered dead unless it is locked out and verified as such; PPE is still required for verification. Your panel cannot be dead if there is still voltage present. You can access a read only copy of the [url="http://www.nfpa.org/aboutthecodes/AboutTheCodes.asp?DocNum=70E"]NFPA-70E[/url] for free although you may need to sign up for a user name and password.

Author:	hillbilly [ Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:39 am ]
Post subject:
This is manufactured gear that has panelboards, contactors, and a phase loss monitor, and a Watts transducer all in one enclosure (does not include the mains though). The Watts transducer and phase loss monitor are feed from pull out fuses in the same enclosure, but are feed from ahead of the main so the only way to remove all voltage from this enclosure is to kill the poco transformer.

Author:	Zog [ Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:34 am ]
Post subject:
hillbilly wrote: This is manufactured gear that has panelboards, contactors, and a phase loss monitor, and a Watts transducer all in one enclosure (does not include the mains though). The Watts transducer and phase loss monitor are feed from pull out fuses in the same enclosure, but are feed from ahead of the main so the only way to remove all voltage from this enclosure is to kill the poco transformer. The the panel os not dead and you need to observe the boundaries I mentioned for your PPE requirements.

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Author:	hillbilly [ Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:
Zog wrote: The the panel os not dead and you need to observe the boundaries I mentioned for your PPE requirements. That's what I thought, and that's what I enforce on all of my techs. I just needed the 70E section for the customer, I think they were wary of this guy too, they requested us to come out and shut down the panels for the inspection. (by the way he showed up with no PPE at all, no safety glasses, wearing a polyester blend shirt,ect.)

Author:	Zog [ Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:
Find a new "expert". Problem with all this 70E stuff is thee is no real certifications, anyone can claim to be an expert or consultant, or train your guys. I really wish there was a way to weed out these people trying to make a buck on the 70E gravy train.

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